A large number of untrained individuals are taking the law into their own hands by tracking pedophiles down on the net. In my opinion, I feel that this should be best left to law enforcement which specialize in this area.
Perverted Justice (PervertedJustice.com), an internet watchdog group whose members pose online as children to catch pedophiles and other untrained civilians who practice similar tactics intent may be that of doing good, but I can’t help wonder what problems this could pose for trained law enforcement.
Perverted Justice is an Online Volunteer Organization based in Portland. Also known as PJ, Perverted Justice claims they have 30,000 volunteers who will go on the site to pose as teenagers, as well as about 30 “young-sounding” phone verifiers.
In the Dateline series, “To Catch a Predator,” NBC teamed up with Perverted Justice.
What does Perverted Justice do? Well according to the Perverted-Justice.com FAQ:
Perverted-Justice.com recruits volunteer contributors who pose as underage children in chat rooms. Posing from a variety of ages (standard ages are 10-15), these contributors simply go into chat rooms with fake online screen names and wait for predators to instigate conversation with them. Are you curious as to what our contributors see when they go into chat with these underage names? Finding out for yourself is easy. Simply go to Yahoo.com, create a new profile, put underage information in your profile (works best if you are posing as a girl), then log into any regional chat room (perhaps even the one closest to your own community). Without even saying anything in the chat room, you will often be deluged by PM’s that will occasionally be open solicitations for sex or “grooming” (an adult preparing, through conversation, an underage child for such solicitations). Now simply imagine if, instead of you, it actually was a young child logging online only to receive this “perverted” greeting from fellow chatters. Hence, the problem.
Despite what their FAQ suggests, I do not recommend going to a chat room and trying this for yourself.
Perverted Justice posts the name, address, chat script, photograph and other personal information of the alleged pedophile on the website for viewing. After reading the chat room transcript, you the visitor can rate your opinion of the post on a “slimness” scale of 1 to 5. Perverted Justice even gives the alleged pedophile the opportunity to respond to their own chat logs. Trained officers do not operate in this manner.
Let me remind you that, Perverted Justice is not a law-enforcement organization, but a group of volunteers.
I know that this type of “Pedophile hunting” is not welcomed in Canada. There has been Talk of Perverted Justice coming to Canada, but Canada does not want perverted-justice here according to a 2002 article from wired.com titled “Porn Hunters Unwelcome in Canada?” that can be read at Porn Hunters Unwelcome in Canada.
The website Perverted Justice has several critics one of them being a website corrupted-justice.com, which describes Perverted Justice’s practices as vigilantism.
Peter J. Carr publisher of Chatmag has an opinionated article about Perverted Justice. Peter talks about the photos of under age girls that Perverted Justice use in their profiles.
The article can be read at Chatmag news and is certainly worth a read.
Julie Posey, a real life Cyber Crime Fighter whose dedicated mission is to prevent children from being sexually abused by pedophiles and child molesters says,” These Perverted-Justice.com investigator wannabes think it’s so easy to go … than humiliating someone and getting media attention.”
“Catching real pedophiles is a job for the professionals,” said Katya Gifford, program manager for the Internet child protection group CyberAngels.org.”
Authorities don’t often agree with the tactics of sites like pervertedjustice.com either. The following is quoted from an article by Jim MicKay on govtech.com.
Dave Jones of the San Diego Police Department said his Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force says evidence provided by groups such as Perverted Justice is almost useless. Jones further said, he’s worked cases where Perverted Justice got in the way of criminal investigators. “We’ve had them hit on undercover operations we were going on,” Jones said. “Law enforcement has gone back to them and said ‘Hey, we’re working this site. Back off.’ They basically go, ‘Screw you. We’re doing what we want.’”
What is the FBI’s thought on this? Well according to an article that can be read at wave3.com, the FBI says that perverted justice has gone too far. FBI spokesman David Beyer told wave3.com that “Anytime the public gets involved in something of this nature, they run the risk of civil liability, perhaps criminal liability. They have the potential of identifying the wrong person.”
The people who run Perverted-Justice.com say their goal is to “out” child predators whose anonymity allows them to lurk in the shadows of the Internet. But critics say the group — whose members insist on anonymity themselves — is nothing more than an Internet lynch mob that operates in the same kinds of shadows they claim to illuminate according to an ABC news original report.
Lee Tien an attorney for the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation thinks that the Perverted Justice Website isn’t justice at all as they are concerned the exposure could send real predators into hiding.
In recent news NBC admits to paying for pedophile sting claiming that it was paying a public service. According to a Washington Post article published in April, Xavier Von Erck, the owner of the vigilante group Perverted-Justice.com is being paid a sum of money in excess of $100,000.00.
Because Xavier Von Erck was paid $100,000.00 by NBC Dateline, will the charges against these men be dismissed? Well their certainly is talk about it, as you can see in a news article by wdtn.com titled, Predators Defense.
I sure hope not!
According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, one out of every five children ages 10 to 17 receives sexual solicitations online. Pedophiles using the Internet as a means to lure children is a growing problem.
We know that these guys are there. We know that a young girl or boy can log into a chat room and received tons of messages from pedophiles who prowl Internet chat rooms looking for vulnerable children and teens.
However, I just don’t feel that untrained individuals like that of perverted justice and other volunteer organizations should be taking the law into their own hands, though they may mean well.
I feel trained cyber-crime detectives should be handling this. We know that there are sworn officers and undercover FBI agents posing as children in chat rooms like those provided by Yahoo!, MySpace, AOL and other sites. Let them do their job.
Is Perverted Justice doing good work in the area of child exploitation or are they doing more harm than good?
What are your thoughts on this?
This post was compiled using a combination of Web based information from the following information sources.
Information Sources:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/08/AR2006040801293.html
NBC admits paying for pedophile sting
http://www.govtech.net/magazine/story.php?id=91688
http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/2875630/detail.html
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652083&nav=0RZFKvFX
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=260587&page=1
http://www.fbi.gov/innocent.htm
Latest Google News on Perverted Justice
RSS
28 responses so far ↓
Wrote: Jun 9, 2006 at 6:12 pm
I read all the links you provided and in my opinion, I feel that the people from Perverted Justice are doing more harm than good. This should definetely be left for law enforment professionals to take care of.
Wrote: Jun 9, 2006 at 6:52 pm
I think the efforts they make are one of wanting to stop the pedofiles. HOWEVER …because they do cross the line many pedofiles just may get off scott free. It’s something of a good news/bad news thing. The police can’t do it all so they try to help. It’s crossing the line when the police tell them to back off on a particular case and they refuse. I agree they shoun’t post the names on the internet. That can cause someone else to comit murder.
In sofar, their intent is good, their tactics cancel out the good intentions. The police should bring charges against those that do break the law.
Rose, At leat we agree these people have gone too far. We agree that pedofiles should be stopped.
Pete
Wrote: Jun 9, 2006 at 11:56 pm
Wow – you read some really lopsided research about Perverted Justice. They are the best. You really picked the wrong side to come down on lady.
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 12:33 am
Great article. I think that many people at PJ mean well, and want to help, but some of the folks there seem pretty unbalanced. So I agree with Phil that the group is potentially dangerous.
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 1:08 am
Anne, I have a right to my opinion. You have a right to disagree with my opinion. In my opinion, I believe that this should be best left to law enforcement which specializes in this area. I’ve only shared with my readership my opinion on this & the opinion of authorities, safety educators, and child activists.
I’ve read all the news articles for Perverted Justice & against them. I’ve blogged in other posts about Dateline’s To Catch a Predator, and while I feel that protecting those who are unable to protect themselves should be our first priority- I still cannot help feel that a number of untrained individuals are taking law into their own hands & keep in mind that different countries have different laws. Child Exploitation Section of the Toronto Police Service’s Sex Crimes Unit discourages posing as a child online to catch predators.
At one time Canadian enforcement didn’t have the technology needed to effectively confront sexual exploitation of children on the internet; however thanks to Microsoft the Child Exploitation Tracking System is possible.
Please understand that I for one do not endorse Perverted Justice Tactics.
There’s children being harmed and we need to do something about that. We can help through education and letting officers do their job.
Now, I know that this post will spark debate. I acknowledge what they are trying to do, which is admirable, but I just think that they are going about it the wrong way.
don’t believe that they should be posting the name, address, chat script, photograph and other personal information of the alleged pedophile on the website for viewing, allowing us to rate it. Trained officers do not operate in this manner & I just don’t feel they should either.
Now I’m guessing that you are either a Perverted Justice Volunteer, or a member of the group Parents Against Pedophiles.
I will say that I did not appreciate your commet that reads, “You really picked the wrong side to come down on lady.”
To me that almost sounds like a threat, unless I’ve read it wrong?
Again, I’m only ask if my readership thinks, “Is Perverted Justice doing good work in the area of child exploitation or are they doing more harm than good?”
I know that I will have those for them & against them & I respect all opinions.
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 1:18 am
Gary, thank you for sharing your opinion and I too think that anyone who poses as a child to catch predators means well & their heart is most likely in the right place, but just the tactics in my opinion are just not right and I cannot help feel that it might end up doing more damage.
The one thing I do acknowledge is perhaps the dateline episode opened more parent’s eyes to the fact that this is a growing problem & it could easily be your child if you don’t monitor their activity.
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 8:22 am
I actually have no problem with citizen groups like P-J because sometimes groups like this light a fire under law enforcement. However if they are interfering with a law enforcement investigation and they are not backing off then they should be arrested for obstruction. But since no obstruction arrests were ever made, to the best of my knowoledge, I have to question the validity of that accusation.
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 9:31 am
I see you took my comments off and they were valid. Sorry to see you don’t like real discussions. i was so proud of you. Now i have a lower opinion of someone who only publishes what they want to hear and not open discussion. It’s sad Rose, because i am not a member of any organization and I wasn’t spamming you or being mean–just stating another side of the picture. I wasted my time reading your thoughtful peace and commenting on it. Will not return here.
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 10:40 am
Hi–Interesting piece. I have oft considered how to help the police because as Peter said, they can’t do it all themselves. “Catching real pedophiles is a job for the professionals,” said Katya Gifford–yes, this is true. But EXPOSING them and telling the truth is our job. Everyones. Pedifiles, verbal abusers, and sexual abusers continue becasue we all keep their secrets–we don’t publish their names, tell our neighbors, and and bring the dark nto the light.
Of course i think we should have ethics in how we do that–but do it we must. Instead of trying to stop perverted justice, why don’t we try to bring some standards to it? Their goal is honorable and may have saved many children already.
I always wanted to bring a film crew to the third world countries where our corporation men go and have sex with 10 year old girls. All the crew would do is film them going into the brothels and coming out and maybe with the kids if they could manage–not interphere becasue it’s not legal. then have a 24/7 channel on TV where they brodcaste the faces of American corporate excutives who are victimizing children around the world.
Rose, i understand your concerns. i also used to be a police officer. They can not do it alone. Indeed some of them are the abusers themselves! It is everyone who has to step up to the plate and at least perverted justice is making an inroad.
Great discussion,
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 11:12 am
Shelly, regarding your statement,”I see you took my comments off and they were valid. Sorry to see you don’t like real discussions.” Your comment was awaiting moderation. I don’t have the time or energy to get in a debate with you. I don’t have a problem with real discussion. You have a right to your opinion.
We at least agree on one thing that there should be some ethnics here. I’m not trying to stop them. It’s not in my power to stop them.
I’m just sharing my thoughts. Like I said, I think that civilian groups are over stepping theirs bounds.
I am not condemning them, but I am saying that I believe this should be left to qualified law enforcement officials who will do it undercover.
Rose
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 11:17 am
Trent, that was not my accusation, but a quote that I took from a news article. I do not think I was wrong in saying that some law enforcement officials have raised questions about PJ methods.
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 11:25 am
Our wonderful legal system is putting the pedofiles back out on the streets faster than it is taking them in. Try criticizing the inept judgest/sentencing committees/parole boards for letting repeat offenders loose in again. Someone has to pick up the slack of unwilling police forces to do their jobs. What actions would you take if a known pedofile/sex offender moved next door to you? Smile politely and criticize someone for trying to make your child and other children safer from him?
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 11:47 am
I don’t normally publish anonymous comments. I feel if you have to hide behind anonymity, then you don’t have the courage to stand behind your comment. However in this case, I chose to publish your comment anon. In answer to your question; I feel the Canadian government has failed to protect our children. To the Canadian children I say, “Children, I’m sorry, but Canada failed to protect you.” I’m quite disappointed with Canadian’s legal system. Sex offenders should receive longer sentences. Therefore, I do criticize the legal system that is failing to protect our most valuable asset- our children. Before you criticize me for having an opinion that differs from you, please make sure that you know where my thoughts lie. Let me direct you to Addressing the Age of Sexual Consent.
Rose
Wrote: Jun 10, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Phil, Prime Time Crime is a website with news collected and published by Leo Knight, a former Canadian police officer, security expert and media commentator. I’m a regular visitor to the Prime Time Crime website that has headlines of pedophiles in the news.
I wanted to quote from one news article:
If you worry that more pedophiles are out there than before, you’re not alone. Hardly a day goes by without news of an arrest — for luring a minor, possession of child pornography, or, worst of all, an assault on a child by a sexual predator.
At the Child Exploitation Section of the Toronto Police, they deal with that reality every day.
The article can be read here and I’ll be adding it in a seperate post too.
Wrote: Jun 11, 2006 at 9:49 am
Evidence of the true nature of what happens when a group of questionably-motivated individuals gather together for the purpose of enforcing their own brand of “justice” can clearly be seen at another website that is operated by Philip Eide, the owner and “Director of Operations” for perverted-justice.com.
I am one of the administrators for Corrupted-Justice(pops), a group that has been researching, archiving and demanding an end to PJ’s vigilante tactics for over two years. The most unfortunate and frustrating aspect of this entire issue is that the vast majority of those who come out in support of PJ have absolutely no idea what has transpired with this group prior to the last one or two Dateline episodes.
Perverted-justice is a vigilante group
Make no mistake – PJ is a vigilante organization, no ifs, ands or buts. In almost three years of operation, not only did they not involve law enforcement in their “busts” – but they actually had a hard & fast rule in place that disallowed any contact with law enforcement by their members! Their mandate was to do whatever was necessary to make the lives of those they targeted a living hell in any and every way possible.
Many have responded “So what… They’re just going after pedophiles anyway, right?” Unfortunately, no, they’re not.
Remember – These PJ participants are just private citizens like you and me. No law enforcement training. No qualifications for “crime-fighting” work. While the site owner consistently tells the media that his members are “trained”, what he doesn’t explain is that their “training” consists simply of instruction on how to “bait” by long-time members of the site. (And yet the media repeats his assertions – “PJ consists of trained volunteers…”) – The result? A significant number of mistakes in identification in which completely innocent people were targeted!
Again, many who don’t take the time to fully investigate would suggest “So what? A few innocent people hurt is worth it to protect our children!”. All well and good – Till it’s your information posted on their website. Your employer’s name & phone number, your neighbour’s names and addresses, photos of your house and children. All well and good till you get fired from your job as a result of mistaken anonymous accusations. Think it can’t happen because you don’t chat with minors? Think again, and hope you don’t have a name similar to someone who’s been “busted” by PJ.
Cyber-stalking and attacks against critics
Even more blistering are the attacks against those who speak out against PJ’s tactics. Because their members are all anonymous, they use that anonymity to launch extremely vicious personal public attacks on anyone who criticizes. To that end, the PJ site owner actually created a secondary website whose only purpose is to discredit and “scare off” those who would dare criticize or publicize the not-so-pretty side of PJ’s tactics.
It should be understood – I have never personally chatted with a minor in any way shape or form, sexually or otherwise. I am not a former “bust”, nor do I know anyone who has been “busted” by PJ. Our organization members and I are personally dedicated to having actual predators dealt with by trained, accountable police and locked up in jail rather than simply being embarrassed on a vigilante website. Contrary to the vigilante site owner’s constant public assertions, we are neither “pro-pedophile” nor “pedophile-enablers”. We are “Pro-law-enforcement”, “pro-justice”, and definitely “anti-vigilante”.
For our unmitigated gall in criticizing PJ, we have been slandered, threatened, and publicly defamed. On PJ’s sister site “corrupted-justice.net”, PJ members have publicly posted offensive and insulting posts regarding my wife and children (including sexually explicit altered photographs of me and my innocent family members), lists of my neighbor’s names and addresses with suggestions that they should be anonymously “notified” that I am a pedophile, suggestions that my children’s schools should be contacted with similar anonymous accusations – They have manufactured and twisted innocuous statements and events to make them appear evil – All in an attempt to discredit those who simply disagree with their tactics & are demanding that they involve law enforcement.
If they are willing to go to these extremes against someone who merely voices opposition to their tactics, imagine what they’re capable of doing to someone they’ve mistakenly accused of being an actual pedophile!
A job for qualified police
In a free and democratic society, there is no place for vigilantism. To protect the innocent and ensure the guilty are dealt with appropriately, we as citizens have demanded accountable, trained, qualified law enforcement. The suggestion that they aren’t able to keep up with the problem is a myth generated by groups like PJ – A look at the Law Enforcement News(pops) area in our site forums shows clearly that real police are making real progress with the problem of Internet predators. In a number of cases, police have clearly stated that PJ has actually harmed their legitimate investigations!
Rather than taking the law into their own hands and doling out their own justice, imagine the good that could be done if the thousands of purported PJ members got together to raise badly-needed money for police forces to help fight the problem… Or if they fanned out across the nation to visit schools to teach children how to stay safe on the Internet… Unfortunately, these solutions don’t satisfy a PJer’s craving for the power associated with anonymously “owning” someone – the true motivation for many of their members.
Inform yourself before jumping on the bandwagon
Our criticism of the group is borne out of over two years of watching their serious mistakes, their attacks on innocent people and their lack of willingness to involve police. Before simply accepting what [i]appears[/i] at first glance to be a legitimate “child protection” organization, all we ask is that you take the time to honestly investigate the claims made by the group’s owner and members. Don’t rely on what are likely the most inaccurate sources of information about PJ – PJ itself and MSNBC Dateline (whose profitability depends on sensationalizing this issue) Do some independent research, look deeper into their claims and then decide whether such a group is worthy of your support.
Scott Morrow
Administrator
http://www.corrupted-justice.com
Wrote: Jun 11, 2006 at 10:18 am
Thanks Rose–you’re right about jumping you–I think things get weird when we do these columns–I’ve had a hate-monger flaming my site and had trouble deciding what to do. He is really vindictive and ugly. sigh.
But when we stick out neck out there to try and do the right thing–we become targets ourselves–
You do a good job and I’m glad.
Wrote: Jun 12, 2006 at 6:41 pm
To be quiet honest I didn’t really understand the whole story behind P.J. Now that I have read some of the research others have done I think that P.J. is doing more harm than good. When private organizations get in the way of real law enforcement then we must draw the line. Vigilante justice serves no one. I do feel though that P.J. has opened the eyes of many who didn’t realize this sort of perversion was going on. I’m sure that money from Dateline has played a big part in their success and I have noticed that they do go the extra mile to bring the perverts to chat. If what I have read is true then I must say that their tactics are questionable and undesireable. We do have laws in this country against entrapment.
Brian L Davis
Wrote: Jun 13, 2006 at 10:25 am
I don’t think untrained people should be doing this either. Trained people are well-versed in psychology, and I can’t see how it would be helpful if you don’t know the psychological ideosyncrasies of these pedophiles minds.
You are dealing with deviants. There is a reason there are task forces formed, and they need to be left to be the ones to do the job. They know all about the psychologial in-and-outs. I agree wholeheated. This is better left to the experts. They know what to say, and when to say it. We want to catch these people, and get children out of harms way. Vigilantism is not going to solve the problem.
I think it creates obstacles and crowds the chats where the ones truly doing the job under the auspices of true gov’t, and law enforcement agencies set in place are losing because of the ones that don’t know what they are doing are crowding the space. The only way I could see that would not be is if the two were working in conjunction with each and that does not seem to be the case.
Thanks again for sharing. No way do I think this should be vigilantes doing this work.
Starlite…
p.s. I am coming back to these links many more times. I am just pressed for time at the moment. I will be back.
Wrote: Jun 27, 2006 at 12:01 pm
Oh, and one more idea for you:
Ask Scott Morrow for PROOF of any of his allegations (External links, not his own words). He will not supply any proof because he lies about anything PJ related. He tends to just throw stuff out there until something sticks.
Rose, I’ve already seen you contradict yourself several times on this single page. Have you really investigated this? Or just found negative links and posted them?
You keep referring to PJ volunteers as “untrained”. Do you have any proof of this? If I can show you proof of training, will you retract your statements?
Wrote: Jun 27, 2006 at 1:47 pm
Vicious attacks on those who comment to my blog will not be tolerated. Zen, I do not condone your personal attacks at Scott Morrow’s character or anyone’s for that matter. I gave you the same opportunity that I did Scott Morison and that is to post about Perverted Justice. You are free to disagree with those commenting, but I won’t tolerate you attacking their character. Further attacks will result in a ban from this blog.
Zen, to answer your question, yes I have investigated this. I’ve spoke to officers it Canada who have informed me that the practices of civil groups like PJ are not welcomed in Canada. Please show me where I’ve contradicted myself?
My blog is not the place for a battle between corrupted-justice.com & corrupted-justice.net. I don’t care to read about the he said she said bs. Zenferret, I would appreciate it if you did not attack my readership for their opinions- remind you that I’ve already chosen not to approve a comment that you addressed to celestialdreams and several that were addressed to Scott.
The link that you provided was a link to where Antiperv, Vande Camp and Duncan Hines gave a training session. However, I‘m curios to know where you received your training? Trained officers like that of the Sex Crimes Unit of the Toronto Police do not operate in this manner.
Your practices are not even something that they would recommend. Explain to me why you post the photos of these men on your website and allow us to rate them by how perverted they are. Explain to me further why you contact these men and inform them that their picture and chat logs have been posted to your site. What if the information that you post about someone in inaccurate? What if someone else, a friend or family member with access to the man’s computer, has been posing as him online?
Furthermore I believe that all this publicity is just sending the dangerous child molesters further underground.
ZenFerret, your ideas may be one of doing good and protecting children. For that I most certainly applaud you; however I’m very skeptical of your tactics.
I feel that civilians should not be taking the law into their own hands. That is my opinion and I most certainly have a right to my opinion.
Have you attacked Paul Farhi of the Washington post for his article where he quotes Scott?
Although some law enforcement may approve of what you’re doing, there are those who don’t, just the same as some civilians don’t approve of you and some do. I’m one who doesn’t! Much of the investigation of online sexual solicitation of children are done by skilled officers such of that as the Sex Crimes Unit of the Toronto Police.
Now I have voiced my opinioned on perverted justice and at this time- I will not be changing my opinion on that despite how many links that you provide me with to your website. If you don’t like what I have to say, I suggest that you don’t come here and read it.
Zen, how long before my name appears on the corrupted-justice website and I’m attacked for my views? I’m just curios!
Rose DesRochers!
Wrote: Jul 6, 2006 at 10:47 am
To answer your questions Rose, first of all, if you HAD investigated Scott Morrow and Corrupted-justice, you would know that his name is not “MORRISON”. When you can’t get even the basic information correct, it’s time to wonder if you’ve got ANY part of this story correctly.
Yes, you are intitled to your opinions, but when you are forming your opinions based on the word of Scott MORROW, without any proof of his accusations, it becomes obvious that you are taking the side of heresay instead of looking at the actual facts. Especially when you are PRESENTED with proof, and choose to refute THAT.
It also seems like you are waiting for an attack from CJ.net or even PJ. Don’t hold your breath. CJ.com is not under attack for simply dissagreeing – they are under attack for actively aiding and providing comfort to men who were caught, arrested, and in many cases CONVICTED of attempting to have sexual intercourse with a child. You can find plenty of proof right on their own forums.
As for your little forum, I am done here. You sound a lot like just another blogger who is really a CJ.com member in disguise. It’s hardly “new” or “original”, but it becomes obvious when you try to refute the FACTS presented to you with rhetoric and more heresay.
You’ve SEEN the pictures of PJ training L.E. STILL not good enough for you? Well, that’s too bad. It sounds like you have your mind already made up. Here in the USA, it works just fine for us. As another Canadian sticking their nose where it has no business, you just earned yourself the bitch-switch. And it’s in the OFF position.
Please, feel free to ban this IP. If you think you can ban ME, however, you’re as deluded as the pedophile-advocates that are using you as a mouthpiece.
Wrote: Jul 6, 2006 at 12:08 pm
I’m not exactly sure why this is so hard for you to get, but I will try to help you understand. This is ‘my’ blog and I have the right to express my opinion on this blog.
I’m not asking that you agree with me or any of my thoughts, but I am asking that you cease making judgments about my motives.
Can you not acknowledge my right to believe differently than you? It is only my opinion I am trying to express here. My opinions are based on my personal values, morals, and logic. They are not based on Scott Morrow, journalists or any anti perverted justice group.
I believe that I’ve already been attacked by a member of Perverted Justice. Correct me if I’m wrong, but are you not a member and correct me if I’m wrong, but are you not discussing me in your forums?
You are correct that I am just another blogger, however I’m not a CJ member nor do I wish to be a member of CJ. Yes, I’ve seen the pictures of PJ training LE and I have accepted that some law enforcement may work with PJ, but other law enforcement agencies have stated that they will not work with perverted justice or any other civilian group.
I know this from having spoken to the Child Exploitation Section of the Toronto Police Services. Law enforcement has also stated that, they appreciate PJ’s mission, but do not agree with some of the operators’ and volunteers’ practices nor do I.
Furthermore, not all US law enforcement backs you, so your Canadian comment was uncalled for. Thank you! I feel honored to have earned the bitch-switch. Now I will not have to read your attacks.
I’m sorry that you have not learnt that not everyone agrees with your opinion. Furthermore, not everyone’s opinion is based on Scott Morrow.
My opinion is mine and mine alone and your actions here just further shows that my opinion of PJ was correct.
Rose DesRochers
Wrote: Jul 6, 2006 at 9:14 pm
I apologize in behalf of corrupted-justice.com that you got dragged into this war that Zen from PJ.com and CJ.net insists on fighting when it comes to other’s opinions on the matter. Unfortuately, because you have dared to express your opinion which differs from the beliefs of the supporters of Perverted-Justice you get the “pedo-enabler” label and are subject to the rantings of a rabid idiot.
Thanks for having the balls to express your opinion publicly.
CJ Black Widow
Wrote: Jul 6, 2006 at 11:21 pm
Hello CJ, I have been subject to such rantings and ravings in the past, and I just choose to hit the delete key. However, this time I thought a pictures worth a thousand words. So why not let ZenFerret’s action speak for themself as they have here and throughout the net.
You know how the saying goes. Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me. Let them lable me. It’s not like I haven’t been labled before from individuals who cannot accept that I might have an opinion different from theirs.
I personally intend to continue to voice my opinion despite what Zenferret says about me. If PJ doesn’t like it then PJ doesn’t have to read it. If they don’t like what’s being said about them, then perhaps they should change their tactics and they could start by not attacking my view point and assuming that I’m a member of corrupted-justice.com because I allowed Scott to post here and I stated that I would not condone ZenFerret’s personal attacks at Scott Morrow’s character or anyone’s for that matter.
Rose
Wrote: Jul 7, 2006 at 12:15 am
Yeah. Let them rant. Maybe they may get smart and send someone with a little bit of more tact next time to explain their point of view. Some people hurt their cause rather than help it because they do not have the ability to get their point across without insulting or playing childish name-calling games.
Keep on keeping on!
Wrote: Jul 31, 2007 at 4:17 am
Hello, Rose.
I’m a big fan of the dateline show. These perverts need to be brought to justice. Saying that the law should be the only entity to address this crisis is wrong. Let’s face it there are not enough resources in a given cities budget to handle the logistics for a successful investigation. If this were the case more strain would be put on the tax payers. The very same people who devote their free time to organizations like PJ. In addition a larger interstate basis provides smaller governments a way to collaborate.
The only part these volunteers should play is “bait”. I’m appalled to think that PJ would not “back off” when told otherwise and those involved should face punishment. In that respect, yes, it does cause damage. But, to simply say they should not continue does not help our children.
On another note, how could anyone defend a pedophile? When is it ok for a being to lose “it’s” rights? Lawyers have caught a lot of flack over the years and for good reason, but I cannot see how anyone with a single fiber of morality could stand for such a thing.
I’m a 21 year old male with no children but I have enough experience to know what is right and what is wrong. Call me old fashioned but there are somethings that “one” just doesn’t do.
If it were up to me these pedophiles would be castrated.
Wrote: Jul 31, 2007 at 2:26 pm
A $105 million federal lawsuit has been filed against NBC. Dateline NBC’s popular “To Catch a Predator” is nothing more than a reality TV show gone wrong. The Collin County district attorney has declined to prosecute more than 20 cases that were part of the sting. There are also evident issues. “Collin County District Attorney John Roach said his office does not have enough evidence to proceed with the cases.”
For a person whose mission is to serve the public, then why did Xavier Von Erck fail to show up in a case against him in connection with another sting in New Mexico?
Also Perverted Justice failed to provide the total chat logs of the Murphy stings, according to the Collin County DA.
It looks like they botched things up good. And that is why this should be left to law enforcement and not civilian groups like PJ.
Wrote: Oct 15, 2007 at 11:38 pm
Also, for everyone’s information, there was another case DISMISSED because of the prosecutors requesting continuance after continuance because they couldn’t get any cooperation from those at Perverted-Justice after providing not a single stick of evidence to the courtALL CHARGES against the person have been dismissed.
Unfortunately due to the possibility of a lawsuit only certain details have been provided to us.